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 Post subject: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:37 pm 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 95
Location: Sydney
Since moving to E85, there has been quite a bit of research that I have been doing.

It appears that E85 can dilute engine oil, so be aware that you need to use ethanol compatible engine oils.

Why was I so curious.....
I have been checking my oil since the E85 tune, much to my surprise and delight, I have been using less oil, that is I have not had to top it up since my service. It usually took a little top up, I just like to make sure it is well maintained. Not only that, it appears to be cleaner/clearer than I had been experiencing with 98 fuel.

Nothing else had changed, except the E85 tune, so I started looking for answers. I thought it was too good to be true.....

I quickly found out that the ethanol fuel can dilute most engine oils, which may explain why my oil is clear, along with why I have not had to top it up......

Thought I would share this in case others may have had the same experience.

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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Vehicle: MY08 XT (SH)

Posts: 1249
Location: Brisbane
Good post.

I use Penrite GF-5 5w 30 (e85 compatible oil).

Interestingly, i sent a 4000km oil sample to "Emonitor" and it came back with "negligible" fuel content on the test report. According to a follow-up phone call the "fuel" part of the test takes e85 into account, but who knows.

The water content was also the same as my last test on petrol.

I'm taking the test results with a grain of salt because the oil definitely has more of an ethanol smell about it and water vapour in the crank case is clearly an issue (hopefully being solved by catch cans, regular oil changes etc).

I observed the same "not much oil lost" phenomenon for a while, but since opening up the internals of the t-piece for the crank catch can my oil levels have been dropping more. I can't say for certain if the issues are connected. If they are, perhaps more efficient catch can breathing is allowing more oil/fuel vapour to be caught in the can?

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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:58 pm 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 95
Location: Sydney
The only thing that comes to mind is that ethanol burns at a lower temperature, so the lower temps in the engine (crank, turbo, exhaust etc ) may cause less burning of the oil or other contaminants that get into the crank.

I will like the advantages..... I just like to know why, sometimes I think it is too good to be true.....

The grimspeed AOS returns the oil, so I am having no oil loss ! It appears I am on a winner, but who knows.....

Moving to Nulon 5W-40 Fully Synthetic.

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VF-52 with Lava blanket, 11psi WG Spring, Company23 EBCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Ceramic Headers & UP Lava wrapped, Ceramic DP, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, F&R Whiteline HD Anti-Sway bars, DW65C, ID1050x, Exedy HD Clutch, DBA F&R T3s - Pmu NS400S, Short shifter,Pitch Stop Mount, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85(FF Shifting & Launch Ctrl)-220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XT Premium

Posts: 208
Location: Australia
I used Penrite 5w50 10/10ths in my STi and had no issues despite having a TERRIBLE cold start with a forged motor. I did notice the ethanol smell during oil changes but simply made them more frequently.

I contacted Penrite prior to purchasing and this is what they had to say:
Quote:
The problem with E85 is the way it interacts with engine oil. Oils meeting API SN/ILSAC GF-5 are best able to handle E85 fuel as a specific test was introduced to SN/GF-5 for corrosion protection with E85 fuel. 10 Tenths Racing range, being ester based, are prone to not separating cleanly as ethanol and ester are miscible (they mix). However, their shear-free capability enables them to maintain their superior lubricating properties. For racing cars on E85 the oil change intervals will be of the order of perhaps 1000-2000 km only, making these oils unsuitable for public road use with E85.

So if SAE 5W-50 matches what you want, then Premium 5W-50 is a good choice for track use.

Zinc is at 1240 ppm, not 1800. Check "Typical data" in the link.....


The recommendation for street use was their Enviro+ GF-5. I used the 10/10ths and had no issues with it at all. I believe my cold start issue was due to the brandt alarm not priming the fuel pump on ignition and I was losing rail pressure extremely fast. The tune had bumped the fuel pressure to about 42psi but I was barely holding 10-20psi after about 4-5 primes in quick succession before trying to crank it over. Starting on a warm engine was perfect, just the first start of the day was crap.

Edit: So the recommendation for 10/10ths in a track car was to change oil every 1000-2000kms. Being a street car that wasn't being driven anywhere near as hard as a dedicated race car, 3000-5000kms was perfectly acceptable for an oil change.


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:24 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

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For a track car, youd probably want to do it more frequently than 1000 to 2000 kms. For a car doing sprints racing that was dedicated fpr racing only and trailered there and back everytime, 2000 kms could be a full season or 2.

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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XT Premium

Posts: 208
Location: Australia
Yeah with a dedicated track car it would be advisable to change it frequently. I didn't have any issues changing 3-5000kms. The oil was actually still pretty clean (visually clear, not dark and murky) but I didn't get any samples tested to see if there was any mixing of fuel/oil.


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:19 am 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 95
Location: Sydney
Delayed Update -
On changing to the Nulon E85 compatible oil, I inspected the old oil that came out of the sump.

It was NOT pretty - since the old oil was not not E85 compatible, it smelt pretty bad of ethanol, with a slight candy smell from my ethanol additive.

As noted above, the oil can get thinner........ Well - The oil was certainly thinner, it was more like baby oil than motor oil, I did not want to think of the damage that may have been done.......

STRONG RECOMMENDATION - If you are using E85 - use the E85 Compatible oil !

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VF-52 with Lava blanket, 11psi WG Spring, Company23 EBCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Ceramic Headers & UP Lava wrapped, Ceramic DP, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, F&R Whiteline HD Anti-Sway bars, DW65C, ID1050x, Exedy HD Clutch, DBA F&R T3s - Pmu NS400S, Short shifter,Pitch Stop Mount, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85(FF Shifting & Launch Ctrl)-220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:38 am 
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Vehicle: MY09 XT Premium

Posts: 208
Location: Australia
nomads64 wrote:
Delayed Update -
On changing to the Nulon E85 compatible oil, I inspected the old oil that came out of the sump.

It was NOT pretty - since the old oil was not not E85 compatible, it smelt pretty bad of ethanol, with a slight candy smell from my ethanol additive.

As noted above, the oil can get thinner........ Well - The oil was certainly thinner, it was more like baby oil than motor oil, I did not want to think of the damage that may have been done.......

STRONG RECOMMENDATION - If you are using E85 - use the E85 Compatible oil !


Which oil were you using before? Ethanol additive smells glorious. Everyone used to comment at how sweet it smelled. I was using VP Racing's M2 additive and Madditive ethanol stabilizer.


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:35 pm 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 95
Location: Sydney
JamesMR_ wrote:
nomads64 wrote:
Delayed Update -
On changing to the Nulon E85 compatible oil, I inspected the old oil that came out of the sump.

It was NOT pretty - since the old oil was not not E85 compatible, it smelt pretty bad of ethanol, with a slight candy smell from my ethanol additive.

As noted above, the oil can get thinner........ Well - The oil was certainly thinner, it was more like baby oil than motor oil, I did not want to think of the damage that may have been done.......

STRONG RECOMMENDATION - If you are using E85 - use the E85 Compatible oil !


Which oil were you using before? Ethanol additive smells glorious. Everyone used to comment at how sweet it smelled. I was using VP Racing's M2 additive and Madditive ethanol stabilizer.


It was the Subaru STD - Havoline (I believe). It was sadly badly diluted, smelt pretty bad too, with a little candy smell in between.

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VF-52 with Lava blanket, 11psi WG Spring, Company23 EBCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Ceramic Headers & UP Lava wrapped, Ceramic DP, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, F&R Whiteline HD Anti-Sway bars, DW65C, ID1050x, Exedy HD Clutch, DBA F&R T3s - Pmu NS400S, Short shifter,Pitch Stop Mount, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85(FF Shifting & Launch Ctrl)-220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: E85 - Engine Oil Compatibility
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:56 pm 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 95
Location: Sydney
Further Update -
I have been keeping an eye on the oil quality and usage........

1) Oil Quality - very clear, slight darkness but overall looks healthy.

2) Oil Usage - Biggest surprise, no need to top up - especially after some spritely driving.

This is helped by the Grimspeed AOS - (Oil Cap type), given the cleaner oil, the recycling method used by this type of AOS is working perfectly. Highly recommended!

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava blanket, 11psi WG Spring, Company23 EBCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Ceramic Headers & UP Lava wrapped, Ceramic DP, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, F&R Whiteline HD Anti-Sway bars, DW65C, ID1050x, Exedy HD Clutch, DBA F&R T3s - Pmu NS400S, Short shifter,Pitch Stop Mount, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85(FF Shifting & Launch Ctrl)-220kw atw


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