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 Post subject: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:57 am 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
I thought I would do the right thing and get a quote for a compliance certificate.
a 2012 XT is about 125kw atw stock - I now have one that is 200kw atw. Which according to NSW law, needs to be certified as it is a greater than 20% increase in power.

This is the response from the enquiry.....
In response to your questions:
1) Do I need a certificate. – Yes.
2) How much is it to get the certificate. – There is quite a bit of analysis involved as well as a brake and noise test required at Eastern Creek Dragway. The full cost for the final certificate including track hire and testing would be between $3,500 - $4,500 + GST with a $2,000 + GST deposit required before starting.
3) How long does it take. – The process is spread over a few weeks, however this depends on how long before Eastern Creek can give us a test date.
4) How long the certificate is valid for – the certificate is valid for many years to come and only becomes invalid if the RMS change regulations etc.


Just a sanity check - does it really cost that much ??????

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava turbo blanket, 11psi Wastegate Spring, 3 port Company23 Anti-Surge BCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Headers & Up-pipe in Lava wrap, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, Front & Rear Whiteline Heavy Duty Anti-Sway bars, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85, Short shifter - 220kw atw


Last edited by nomads64 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:31 am 
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I Say: There's no 'i' in Team, but there is in Winner!
Vehicle: MY10 XT

Posts: 1531
Location: Mealbun Orstraya
Sounds more like a Nigerian Prince scam to me :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:49 am 
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I Say: Fozzy fozzy fozzy, oi oi oi!
Vehicle: 2011 Forester S-Edition WRB

Posts: 1357
Location: 3015
Does anyone actually buy those? Sounds like money down the toilet

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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:58 am 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
Well, according to NSW policy, any mod that gives you a gain of 20% over stock needs to have a compliance certificate...... That is ok for small mods.
However the implications come when you are given a ticket for non-compliance, which is probably hard to determine unless it is actually tested or a request to get tested.
My initial concern is about whether you would be covered by an insurance company..... as it would not be complaint with NSW vehicle policy.
Again, it would have to be tested to show that it may be an unroadworthy vehicle.......
So - my best endeavours to be legal, comply and covered by insurance - the price is just ridiculous!

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava turbo blanket, 11psi Wastegate Spring, 3 port Company23 Anti-Surge BCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Headers & Up-pipe in Lava wrap, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, Front & Rear Whiteline Heavy Duty Anti-Sway bars, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85, Short shifter - 220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Vehicle: MY08 XT (SH)

Posts: 860
Location: Brisbane
Shannons seem to be very happy to insure modified cars that don't have State-based engineering certificates (or equivalent). They chuckled a bit at my Forester enquires and noted that they insure some 1000+ hp weapons.

Different engineers probably quote different amounts and take different attitudes to how comprehensive/overkill they need to be. Eg doing a brake test on some quiet road (rather than hiring a race track) might be the usual policy of a different engineer.

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Last edited by Yowie on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:18 pm 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
An Update !
I found someone that can do a certificate for $750.
Thought is was great, so the first 30min was ok - free consult.....
This is what I found out -
1) Any vehicle without an enclosed air-box will NOT pass. Needs to be sealed so that vapours do not escape when the car is at rest. So my $400 Mishimoto box is useless.
2) I need to get an emissions test, which would probably fail, because in 2010, the Foz went to a Euro 4 standard - highest of course. This assumes my high flow cat will do the job, but from his experience - very unlikely. De-tune until it meets emissions.
3) Noise test - good news is that I have an STI resonator - so he was surprised it was quiet - he has a db meter - I was ok for the stationary test.
4) Then the dyno - If I was putting out the 200kw atw - would probably need a brake upgrade as it is in STI territory. More likely I would have to put in a less performing tune.

It was a learning experience I wanted to share.....

Overall, he was impressed when he floored it and the traction control kicked in.....

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava turbo blanket, 11psi Wastegate Spring, 3 port Company23 Anti-Surge BCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Headers & Up-pipe in Lava wrap, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, Front & Rear Whiteline Heavy Duty Anti-Sway bars, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85, Short shifter - 220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Vehicle: MY08 XT (SH)

Posts: 860
Location: Brisbane
Cheers for posting the update

nomads64 wrote:
1) Any vehicle without an enclosed air-box will NOT pass. Needs to be sealed so that vapours do not escape when the car is at rest. So my $400 Mishimoto box is useless.
.....


That is one of the stupidest reasons for something I've ever heard.

nomads64 wrote:
2) I need to get an emissions test, which would probably fail, because in 2010, the Foz went to a Euro 4 standard - highest of course. This assumes my high flow cat will do the job, but from his experience - very unlikely. De-tune until it meets emissions.
.....


Temporary switch to E85?

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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:32 pm 
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I Say: Do or do not, there is no try.
Vehicle: MY17 BRZ, MY11 BT-50

Posts: 16159
Location: Medowie (near Newcastle), NSW
I'd be comparing power outputs with the highest power output SH Forester, so the S Edition which is listed as 193 kW at the flywheel. Bigger turbo, but same brakes (from the factory).

You're a fair bit closer to the 20% (though probably still well above) if you take that into consideration.

Regarding the inlet, is it a pod in the engine bay or in the guard? In the engine bay the box needs a lid (even though the bonnet probably seals it well enough. In the guard is easier to defend (on technical grounds).

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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:54 am 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
Yowie wrote:
Cheers for posting the update

nomads64 wrote:
1) Any vehicle without an enclosed air-box will NOT pass. Needs to be sealed so that vapours do not escape when the car is at rest. So my $400 Mishimoto box is useless.
.....


That is one of the stupidest reasons for something I've ever heard.

nomads64 wrote:
2) I need to get an emissions test, which would probably fail, because in 2010, the Foz went to a Euro 4 standard - highest of course. This assumes my high flow cat will do the job, but from his experience - very unlikely. De-tune until it meets emissions.
.....


Temporary switch to E85?



I have to say I agree with your air box response - but he was adamant that that was the first step - general comment is that anything with a pod filter that is not sealed is NOT compliant ! That was a wake up call.....

E85 - great suggestion - which means larger injectors and another tune - hmmmmm - I think I can justify the investment !
I will need to see the ratio of gasses - apparently it is the nitrogen that is the one they look for - which aftermarket cats don't do very well at.

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava turbo blanket, 11psi Wastegate Spring, 3 port Company23 Anti-Surge BCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Headers & Up-pipe in Lava wrap, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, Front & Rear Whiteline Heavy Duty Anti-Sway bars, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85, Short shifter - 220kw atw


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 Post subject: Re: Compliance Certificate for 200kw atw Foz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:01 am 
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I Say: Plan for tomorrow,Live for TODAY!
Vehicle: MY12 XT

Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
be_oh_be wrote:
I'd be comparing power outputs with the highest power output SH Forester, so the S Edition which is listed as 193 kW at the flywheel. Bigger turbo, but same brakes (from the factory).

You're a fair bit closer to the 20% (though probably still well above) if you take that into consideration.

Regarding the inlet, is it a pod in the engine bay or in the guard? In the engine bay the box needs a lid (even though the bonnet probably seals it well enough. In the guard is easier to defend (on technical grounds).


Well given that a std SH Forester on dyno is about 125kw atw @ 169kw at the fly wheel ( as per mighty car mods video) (1.352 ratio) we get a large loss due to the AWD transmission.
which means 200kw atw is 270kw at the flywheel - which puts me out of even the STI range according to the engineer. That is why he is suggesting a de-tune for compliance. I am happy to be corrected on the numbers - but that is my understanding. the STI's have larger disks and 4 piston callipers, we only have two pistons...

So HUGE brakes are needed to stay at the same output - he suggested NOT to go that route as it would be expensive - I agree !

As for where the pod is - It is in the engine bay in a partial box, it takes air from the guard - regardless, he says it has to be sealed to prevent gasses being expelled back out of the inlet. So caught out either way !

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Silver Fox !
VF-52 with Lava turbo blanket, 11psi Wastegate Spring, 3 port Company23 Anti-Surge BCS, 3" Mishimoto CAI, PSR Intake, Headers & Up-pipe in Lava wrap, Large TMIC, GFB BOV, Grimmspeed AOS, 3" TBE, Front & Rear Whiteline Heavy Duty Anti-Sway bars, KiddoRacing 18psi Tune for E85, Short shifter - 220kw atw


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