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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:18 am 
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Vehicle: 99 WRX, SH9 XTP

Posts: 360
Location: Sydney
Thank you Roger, you're spot on!! I wish you were wrong purely to save myself having to do this again, but you are definitely spot on.

I am still getting a rough spot around 2000rpm and now I'm wondering if I need to have another go at getting the filters out :(


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Vehicle: MY10 XTP

Posts: 6
Location: Sydney
Twisties, that is doubly not good news as based on your initial post, i had hoped changing my OCV solenoids would be the main fix (still to do).

I've had the check engine light with code P0021 come on and remain on. After some initial viewing of the OCV angles (no logs unfortunately), i could see definite lag on the left side. After an oil flush and new oil/filter, and cleaning and removing the left solenoid (thanks to your write up), the check engine light went out.
I did not reset the computer (not sure if i need to). The car still drives like it has lost a lot of power and is a bit 'rough'. Logging shows minor oscillation on the left side occasionally (although interestingly it was quite evident around 2000 rpm in the logs!) and sometimes a fair amount of lag compared to the right hand side.

I was thinking either the oil supply (restricted banjos could cause lag especially at lower revs) or OCV solenoids, but i still don't know if i can really get to those banjos bolts with filters.


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:44 pm 
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Vehicle: 99 WRX, SH9 XTP

Posts: 360
Location: Sydney
RogerThat wrote:
Twisties, that is doubly not good news as based on your initial post, i had hoped changing my OCV solenoids would be the main fix (still to do).
...
I was thinking either the oil supply (restricted banjos could cause lag especially at lower revs) or OCV solenoids, but i still don't know if i can really get to those banjos bolts with filters.


Sorry I should have worded my post a little better, the new OCVs cleared up 99.9999% of the issue, but I can still feel a feint rough spot around 2000rpm (when stationary and holding the throttle in that position). From your post I gather you haven't replaced your OCVs yet, but when you do I highly recommend replacing both.

When I tested mine (with a battery, no logs) they both appeared to work fine. My car only gave a code for an issue on one side, but I decided to replace both anyway. I replaced each one about a week apart and while I thought my problems were fixed after replacing the first one (whichever side gave the code, can't remember) when I changed the remaining one a week later I again felt further improvement (maybe 15-20% further improvement), indicating that both sides were failing.

Judging by the location of those banjo bolts I'll have to live with the remaining rough spot but it's not bad enough for me to really worry about.

Let me know how you get on!


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Vehicle: MY10 XTP

Posts: 6
Location: Sydney
Yes, I still have to replace the OCV solenoids and was planning to do both. I was just trying to get to the bottom of the banjos to make sure they were clean until i saw where they were...

For interest, attached is my log plot of VVT angles when stationary at 2K revs. This shows the oscillation clearly. This data is after oil flush/change and OCV solenoid cleaning. The solenoid still works (follows right hand side ok) and now the check engine light is out (so it must have been bad before!), but the left sometimes seems to be slower to respond, and in this case it oscillates.
Attachment:
File comment: VVT angles at 2K revs (stationary)
VVT angles at 2K revs.png
VVT angles at 2K revs.png [ 26.2 KiB | Viewed 219 times ]

I'm still concerned about the oil flow contribution to this, but based on your experience and others on various forums, it seems solenoids is the main culprit. The effect may be worsened by clogged banjo filters which could cause a slower oil flow response and in turn make the ECU control a bit more unstable trying to control it.

The other logs 'mostly' looked normal (again after solenoid cleaning). The next plot is when driving and is an example or when it is poor (some lag and some oscillation).
Attachment:
File comment: VVT angles when driving_with lag and oscillation
VVT angles driving.png
VVT angles driving.png [ 34.07 KiB | Viewed 229 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:46 pm 
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Vehicle: 99 WRX, SH9 XTP

Posts: 360
Location: Sydney
How are you logging that? With a tactrix? I'd be interested to see how mine look after replacing the OCVs.

Like you I'd really like to be able to get to the banjo filter/filters(?) but as you say it looks a bit out of reach without some extensive fiddling.

If you haven't yet bought the OCVs I recommend www.partsouq.com, they have OEM gear at very reasonable prices (I bought a bunch of oil filters etc at the same time to make the shipping worthwhile).


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:15 pm 
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Vehicle: MY10 XTP

Posts: 6
Location: Sydney
Logging by USB OBD2 cable which I borrowed from a mate (must be similar to a tactrix cable, i'm not sure), a laptop and RomRaider software.

First I tried a cheap ELM327 bluetooth OBDII version paired to a phone which worked for OBD2 diagnostics, but it doesn't have a big enough buffer to handle subaru SSM messages (used to handle extra information such as VVT angles). So as I had access to borrow a usb one, so that worked for me.

Lots of fun when you can see the data and makes it easier to help diagnose.


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:20 am 
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Vehicle: 99 WRX, SH9 XTP

Posts: 360
Location: Sydney
Yep that sounds like a tactrix cable. I've also got the bluetooth ELM 327 and as you said, no dice on VVT angles.

Let us know what kind of results you get after replacing the OCVs. I'd be interested to see if that settles the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:57 am 
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I Say: You tell me Picasso - are you a s*** painter , or do just paint ugly f***** people .
Vehicle: MY04 XT

Posts: 1920
Location: Brisbane
RogerThat wrote:
Excellent write up and most helpful to solve my OCV problem.

i would just like to point out that the bolts you removed are the union bolts that do not or should not have filters. The filtered banjo bolts (or referenced by union bolt with filter) is lower down the engine following the oil line.
It is best referenced by one of the part breakdowns, such as Opposed Forces website.
Image

In this diagram it shows the bolt you removed is just the union bolt (no filter)
bolt labelled '4' 15194AA270 SCREW-UNION

and that the union bolt with a filter is in a different location (harder to get to).
bolt labelled '3' 14445AA090 UNION SCREW AND FILTER ASSEMBLY
This bolt has a protrusion on the end of the bolt, which can easily help to identify you have the correct bolt.

A good write up on this can be referenced:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin ... ndex2.html

Hopefully this helps someone.

Just thought I would add , on my 04 XT the filters were in the easy to get to 17mm bolt marked 4 in this diagram - just in front of the solenoid , so maybe they moved them in later models . Just had to undo inlet from air box for the other side and they both came straight out with a socket / extension , you can then fish the broken filters out with small tweezers or a bit wire if need be .
If bits are missing you will have to remove the solenoid .
Not the best pic but reference the bolt to the solenoid and it's the same on the other side .


Attachments:
image.jpeg
image.jpeg [ 86.18 KiB | Viewed 212 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:22 am 
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Vehicle: my10 xt premium

Posts: 1597
Location: rye
Nice write up !! Damn Iv just replaced my ocv solenoids a few days ago and cam wheels wish I had of seen this thread before hand , would of got the banjo filters replaced also .this problem is never ending in my foz ! I have a cosworth 06 sti motor i wonder what position the filters are in


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 Post subject: Re: HOW TO: AVCS Banjo Filter & OCV Solenoid Removal P0011 P0021
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:55 pm 
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Vehicle: MY10 XTP

Posts: 6
Location: Sydney
Twisties, I finally got around to replacing both OCV's and back to normal power. Your write up made it very easy.
After the change out, both acceleration and idle felt a lot smoother, but still a bit laggy. I then reset the computer to clear the old code and then the car felt more alive and responsive again.

I had hoped to log after changing just the faulty OCV, but it was too much stuffing around in the time period i had to change them, so it didn't get done and i just changed out both. For comparison, i have also logged after the change. Both respond very well, with no oscillation. I did see a tiny bit of lag occasionally on the left one again in some of the logs (under hard acceleration) but normally they track quite well and i would guess is well within tolerance.

There is a slight difference between current readings and duty cycle seen between left and right OCV's, but again, nothing that i think needs worrying about.

Back to fun driving again!


Attachments:
File comment: New OCVs_VVT angles at 2K revs (Stationary)
VVT angles at 2K revs_NewOCVs.png
VVT angles at 2K revs_NewOCVs.png [ 30.54 KiB | Viewed 157 times ]
File comment: New OCV's - driving 1 (VVT angles)
NewOCV_drive1_VVT_angles.png
NewOCV_drive1_VVT_angles.png [ 45.15 KiB | Viewed 149 times ]
File comment: New OCV's - driving run 2 (with VVT angles, current and duty cycle)
VVT angles driving_run2c_NewOCVs_with_current_dutycycle.png
VVT angles driving_run2c_NewOCVs_with_current_dutycycle.png [ 45.54 KiB | Viewed 149 times ]
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