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 Post subject: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:56 am 
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Vehicle: JDM SF STi Pure White

Posts: 148
Location: Germany
Hey,

can anyone help me out with finding the right oil filter sandwich plate for my SF5 STi and the defi gauges/sensors i got from japan?
The next best thing i found is this here: https://www.rhdjapan.com/blitz-oil-sens ... -70mm.html

But i can't figure out if that has the right diameter for the oil filter to perfectly sit and seal on.
Judging from the partslist at partsouq, the part number for the filter is 15208AA100, but i can't find any specs from which i could certainly tell which size sandwich plate i need.

And yes, german me will have to order from japan, again. Because i can't find any sensor adaptors with 1/8 PT/BSPT, just ones with 1/8 NPT. While the PT sensors will screw into the NPT holes, they won't seal.

Thanks for any help.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:02 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17764
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
I dont think the diameter is critical. They usually have a flat face that the oil filter will meet up against. And the sandqhich plate will meet up against the flat face of where the original filter would have fitted. This means diameter size isnt really critical, as there is a good amount of flat space available.

Over the years i have had numerous snadwhich plates and never had dramas with diameter. Ive had 2 different oil cooler take offs, a sandwhich plate for gauges. And also a remote filter relocation aswell.

What is critical is matching the thread size and pitch. Which from memory is m20x1.5 (i think thats right).

I recommend the Mocal ones, as they have a very nice seal design. You could probs pick one up from the likes of Demon Tweeks over in the UK or any number of other retailers.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:41 am 
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I Say: Do or do not, there is no try.
Vehicle: MY17 BRZ, MY11 BT-50

Posts: 16233
Location: Medowie (near Newcastle), NSW
Why use a sandwich plate?

For oil pressure sensor, remove the stock low oil pressure switch and insert the defi sensor, it's a direct fit (correct thread).

For oil temp sensor get a Subaru sensor bung (part number 11024AA210), there is a "plug" near the throttle body you can remove and replace with the sensor bung and defi sensors are a direct fit (correct thread).

I used that set up on my STi for 5 years with no issues.

I'll be using the same method for the new car.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:55 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17764
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
I personally have used the sandwich plate approach for gauges, because the engine block ports are already in use with ECU monitored temp/pressure sensors. But if they are available, i agree with Bob. Its a better option.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:17 am 
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Vehicle: JDM SF STi Pure White

Posts: 148
Location: Germany
Well, i'd like to go with the sandwich plate as it's the easiest way to go with it. Don't want to do any fiddling with the Stock ECU sensors.

M20x1.5 is the correct thread for the filter, i can find that easily, but the issue i have is with the sensor ports. They're either 1/8 NPT, which won't seal with the 1/8 PT defis, or some other size like 1/2 PT, which will need to be adapted to 1/8 PT. And finding these adaptors anywhere is as hard as finding sandwich plates with 1/8PT sensor ports. Can't even find them at any UK based shops, despite the fact that PT is actually BSPT (British Standard Pipe Thread). Which means japan is the only place i can get my stuff from. Which is OK, i already got the gauge cluster from rhdjapan, just didn't think about the sensors having the "wrong" thread.

Also i do think that the plate diameter - or to be correct, the seal diameter - is a bit critical. I found some spec for the 15208AA100 filter that says the seal diameter is 62.9mm. If the inner diameter of the flat face is larger than that, the filter won't seal which will result in a leak between the filter and the plate.

I think i will grab a caliper gauge and go to the next shop that has my filters and just measure the thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:25 am 
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I Say: Do or do not, there is no try.
Vehicle: MY17 BRZ, MY11 BT-50

Posts: 16233
Location: Medowie (near Newcastle), NSW
You won't be fiddling with stock ECU sensors. The ECU in your car doesn't look at oil pressure. The stock oil pressure sensor is a simple switch set at a very low pressure. A defi set up should have a programmable low pressure warning setting.

Bram may be referring to his aftermarket ECU.

Sandwich plates aren't that great if you have stock headers. There is very little room due to the heat shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17764
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
Quote:
Also i do think that the plate diameter - or to be correct, the seal diameter - is a bit critical. I found some spec for the 15208AA100 filter that says the seal diameter is 62.9mm. If the inner diameter of the flat face is larger than that, the filter won't seal which will result in a leak between the filter and the plate.

What i meant was that its not important because sandwhich plates are specifically made to fit oil filters/engines. No one is gonna manufacture a sandwhich plate that DOESNT fit a standard size oil filter on a very common jap tuner engine. There is nothing special about a subaru oil filter size. It falls into a similar size range as basically every other japanese 4 cylinder tuner engine ever. So you can rest assured virtually every adapter your gonna find is gonna have the right diameter range to seal. Trust me when i say its not important. :thumbs:

And dont get too hung up on thread sizes. 1/8npt, 1/8bsp, 1/8pt. It really doesnt make too much difference in the real world. The thing with any tapered pipe thread is the seal is actually given by the deformation of the threads as the taper/parralell thread is forced into the parralell/taper reciever thread. You have to screw them together until the metal interferes and deforms. It is the deformation/crush that does the sealing. The difference between those 3 sizes is actually very little. There is about one thread per inch difference and a minor angle change of the thread face. 1 thread per inch on a part that is maybe at best 3/8" long is such a small difference its not gonna stop you screwing them together. And the angle of thread face doesnt matter too much when you have to deform the thread reguardless to seal anyways. And aluminium and/or brass is a very soft metal that is easily deformed.

I know its not technically correct, but in the real world, you can mix and match 1/8" pipe threads without too much trouble. If your really worried, by the appropriate tap off ebay for about $3.99 delivered from china, and run a fresh thread down the original hole first. Because of the taper, you can easily re-tap these threads by simply going a little deeper than the original. As always, apply a smear of thread sealing shmoo to the threads as you install (dont use thread tape). I have done this more times than i can remember both professionally and on my own car and have never had a leaky seal. It sounds rough, but its perfectly fine unless your working in aerospace, in which case they tend to get a bit funny about these sort of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:16 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17764
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
And yes, As bob said, on my car i run an aftermarket ECU which monitors many other things above what the OEM ECU ever did, including oil pressure/temperature. So there will be unused gallery plugs that you can screw adapters into directly on the engine block.
The EJ block actually has about 4 or 5 oil gallery plugs that are simply unused as original. The problem is most are hidden behind timing covers/power steering brackets/gearboxs etc.

The benifit of measuring the vitals at the block instead of at the filter is you see what the engine is actually getting. Not what the oil filter is getting. This is important because of things like pressure drop and temperature differences (like if you had an oil cooler aswell). And you also keep wiring away from headers in a subaru engine. And lastly, its one less spot for leaks to develop.

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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:28 am 
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I Say: You tell me Picasso - are you a s*** painter , or do just paint ugly f***** people .
Vehicle: MY04 XT

Posts: 1927
Location: Brisbane
be_oh_be wrote:
Why use a sandwich plate?

For oil pressure sensor, remove the stock low oil pressure switch and insert the defi sensor, it's a direct fit (correct thread).

For oil temp sensor get a Subaru sensor bung (part number 11024AA210), there is a "plug" near the throttle body you can remove and replace with the sensor bung and defi sensors are a direct fit (correct thread).

I used that set up on my STi for 5 years with no issues.

I'll be using the same method for the new car.



Ill say cheers for this info - been meaning to do this for awhile , much less hassle knowing this than I thought it be .. :thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: Oil filter sandwich plate size
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:49 am 
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Vehicle: JDM SF STi Pure White

Posts: 148
Location: Germany
Quote:
A defi set up should have a programmable low pressure warning setting.


The DIN-Gauge doesn't have that. It's basically just a set of three gauges with corresponding sensors. No defi link, no defi advance. I went for that because i a) wanted gauges (duh) and b) wanted them to fill the DIN space where the JDM Nav/TV screen used to reside.

Either way, talked to my mechanic today while he was doing my brakes - new golden calipers are in, yay - and he said the sandwich plate might be not that good of an idea, aswell. FML. I took a look down there too, proximity to headers is a big issue indeed, the OEM headers are humongous with all the heatshields plus the space is quite cramped.

Which means doing it the way bob said, except for figuring out a way to keep the ECU monitored switch. Thinking about it, a Y-piece should work fine for pressure. Oil temp seems easy now, going to order the 11024AA210 bung and just roll with it.

Plus coolant temp needs to be sorted, too. The upper rad hose has a few kinks and bends to it, no estate to cut out a few cm and fit an adapter pipe. Is there a galley plug somewhere on the engine for that?

EDIT: Looked around the webs and found some ebay shops in the UK selling oil pressure and temperature sensor fitting kits. They consist of a 11024AA210 bung, a hose with some fittings at each end (Male 1/8PT - 2x female 1/8PT) and some mounting hardware. The bung goes to the Cyl3 hole, the male end of the hose goes into stock pressure switch hole and the other end happily accepts both the switch and sensor...at the same time! :D


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