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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:31 pm 
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I Say: Once was
Vehicle: Previously SH...

Posts: 1404
Location: Melbourne
Nice - headlights look good! :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:24 pm 
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I Say: This one is staying stock...
Vehicle: GC8Track/NFIIFairlane/MY12STi

Posts: 4789
Location: Melbourne
Yep, looking good Pete. :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XTP & MY16 BT50

Posts: 2461
Location: S.E. Melbourne
Bram wrote:
Quote:
Bram - so you're happy to use a 1/8NTP male fitting into 1/8BSP female (with thread tape) for oil and other pressure components on your car/s?


Yes. I have done so in the past numerous times. Although if possible i try to avoid it, or i will actually re-tap the hole to the correct thread. But sometimes things are done in a pinch, and this is just one of those things. I have a very good selection of taps for this exact purpose. Aluminium and brass are very soft metals and easy to hand tap.

Although, depending on the situation, i dont use thread tape. I usually ise a teflon paste. The only time thread tape is preffered is situations where if you want to take it apart later, and want to easily be able to peel the teflon off later so it doesnt go down the hole and potentially block up what evers at the end of the fitting etc.

Hmmm I will see if anyone I know or work has taps and I've bought some teflon paste too.

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XTP & MY16 BT50

Posts: 2461
Location: S.E. Melbourne
Yowie wrote:
dwee. wrote:
...
3. Saw and spoke to Toby before. Mine is an early '09 (MY09) whereas yours and his is a later '09 (MY10). That was our conclusion.

4. (Bonus!) Cromwood installed the quick rack today. Initial driving observations:
- heavier steering
- notice bump steer more (probably the same amount of bump steer but more evident now with the heavier steering and quicker ratio)
- quicker but needs a proper test/spirited drive
- VDC has not activated yet. Even during tight corners and roundabouts, with the traction control turned on and off. Might need a proper test/spirited drive. I suspect it might be a combo of a tight corner and enough open throttle to activate the VDC
- Toby tested the quick rack and he liked it.. :lol:
...


3. Yeah, sounds about right. Mine is actually built in 2008 and has the plastic tee-piece. My wife's is 2009 with the rubber F-piece. That's the only reason i've become so familiar with the differences.

4. Very interesting. Mine already has heavier steering and bump-steer from the extra caster (Superpro alloy lower control arms) so if/when i change steering racks it's likely to be a "two hands on the wheel when cornering" deal with no exceptions.

In my observation on a dirt racetrack - traction control (switchable) has no effect on VDC (non-switchable unless you remove the ABS fuse). My guess - the Bosch VDC unit is probably still comparing detected steering angle (which is now incorrect by whatever percentage with the new rack) with it's inertia-based sense of the car's direction and waiting to make the decision to intervene when car momentum differs from steering angle by more than x factor. Your chosen pre-2015 rack plus the "milder" driving environment of dry roundabouts is probably not triggering VDC intervention.

The big question for me is:- "what is the difference between the intervention point for a stock rack vs the mild WRX rack, and is it acceptable and safe on the road in terms of not triggering unnecessarily and also being effective when it does trigger?"

Once VCD intervention has started, i wonder if it factors in steering angle or just focuses on getting the car straight again (perhaps programmed to assume the driver's steering wheel control is not to be relied on anymore).

From my dirt-track VCD experience, you end up pointing forwards on the road at a reduced speed (for a mild VDC intervention) or stopped (for VDC intervention after a major spin has started). Perhaps being rear-ended is the biggest/only risk if VDC came in too early or too hard?

Hi Yowie,

I experienced VDC kicking in on the weekend while trying to do a simple right-hand turn. It was a weird feeling out of nowhere; the car was braking, revs dropping while I was on the accelerator - felt really weird. I guess it could be dangerous and cause a rear-end accident, especially if the car behind thinks you are accelerating (like a right hand turn at the lights when it turns green). I'm not sure if VDC comes on harder as speed increases or 'serious spin' is detected. Since stability control become mandatory in '09, do '08 SHs have VDC? I assume it does as you mention your VDC dirt-track experience.

I might have suspected right.. it might be about the steering angle, the amount of throttle, and possibly the speed plays a factor too. With roundabouts (local roads I have tested), they are usually tight, smaller, slower speed and less throttle input. Compare that with a right hand turn, less tight, bigger, faster speed and more throttle input due to acceleration from standstill.

Moving forward, I need to disconnect the yaw or steering angle sensor temporarily so it's a bit safer and for the upcoming track day. I have been messaging hired-goon a few occasions so I probably ask him to make his program for me.

clayq wrote:
Nice - headlights look good! :thumbs:

H-are wrote:
Yep, looking good Pete. :thumbs:

Thanks fella's! :thumbs:

Cheers,

Pete.

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Vehicle: MY08 XT (SH)

Posts: 1326
Location: Brisbane
My 08 SH definitely has VDC, as a half-ruined dirt track day can attest (I didn't know about the ABS fuse thing at the time).

Not to tell you how to manage your affairs, but if I had the steering rack upgrade (without the arduino unit fix yet) and I was doing more simple right-hand turns in the dry than high-speed adventures in the wet, it might be worth pulling the ABS fuse for daily driving (but putting it back in for wet driving - ABS is a life-saver). With quality tyres and AWD in the dry one would think that you're pretty safe.

One level up (before the arduino unit) might be wiring the ABS fuse terminals to a fuse and switch in the cabin. You could flick off the whole system before a sharp U-turn then flick it on again for most of normal driving.

---

More generally, cheers for the honest VDC feedback. It was genuinely bugging me when (if at all) a non-2015 rack upgrade might trigger VDC.

You might be in the very slim minority of people who have done the upgrade, detected VDC interference AND reported it on a searchable forum.

"Pride" probably filters out a lot of reporting of "less than 100% awesome" aspects of our various car modifications. It's a shame because every car mod is some sort of compromise.

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XTP & MY16 BT50

Posts: 2461
Location: S.E. Melbourne
Hi Yowie,

Okay, '08s have VDC then too... I know the feeling, I did the OzFoz FozNats skid pan in Canberra 3yrs ago, and the first two or so sessions were sh!thouse, the extreme summer track tires didn't help much either :lol:

Regarding in the meantime before Arduino fix, I've been reading up another method that was along the same lines of what you posted, but it is do with the yaw sensor and installed a switch relay (I've copied my previous post below). The only problem with this is if you give the car to someone else and say leave VDC on, they will freak out as soon as the VDC kicks in. Or say if you leave the VDC off, one may go too hard (if not use to the car).

Going the Arduino route, you still have normal VDC operation with the quicker rack performance (so it's safe to give to anyone to drive), and you have the option to turn VDC off if you really want to (I guess handy for me when I go to the tracks). I will go this route but I will drive with either the steering sensor or yaw sensor unplugged for now.

I would like to mention that in all the times I have driven on the track, hill climbs, hard spirited drives with the stock rack, the VDC has never engaged on me while doing so (probably need to drive even harder! :lol: )

dwee. wrote:
jonp wrote:
EvilRooter wrote:
My steering sensor was giving me issues after I put in a spec C rack.


What year is your rack?

Apparently some VDC equiped cars with the quick racks installed have experience problems with the steering sensor tripping and engaging the VDC..

I've been looking up and reading different threads/forums, and with messaging Shae. I found this thread quite helpful (see in particular posts #58, 70 & 80). In summary, best option is to install a switched relay on the power supply of the Yaw sensor. This disables the VDC, traction control & hill start assist but you maintain ABS. I'm not worried that I lose traction control (as I always turn it off) & hill start assist; but the good point is that you can easily switch it back it on, ignition cycle and there is no problem (handy when you give it to others to drive etc).


EvilRooter wrote:
Good job on getting the rack for a good deal. Install is pretty straight forward. I did mine a few weeks back.

EvilRooter wrote:
Ive fitted a C spec quick rack part number 34110FG010 and I experienced issues with the VSC unit.

Pulled the plug on it and no more problems.


EvilRooter bought the spec c rack and installed it just before I bought mine.. He mentioned it a few times and in conjunction with me reading the US WRX forums (heaps of searching with not many answers - some have problems, some not), I had a feeling I was going to have a similar problem. I read and was going to do the yaw sensor method but then I actually first came across hired-goon's post in a US forum, which linked back to his thread back in OzFoz.

I always like to share my findings, especially topics that are so difficult to find clear answers. You invest so much time looking through other forums, reading up bits and pieces of different relating information here and there - it would be crazy not to share it and make it easier for someone else. I guess to also give back to the community that has helped us so much. :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:55 am 
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Vehicle: 2011 XTP

Posts: 266
Location: Brisbane
dwee, when you go the Arduino fix method, can we work together? shipping, buying parts as Id like to restore this functionality to my FOZ. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Vehicle: MY08 XT (SH)

Posts: 1326
Location: Brisbane
EvilRooter wrote:
dwee, when you go the Arduino fix method, can we work together? shipping, buying parts as Id like to restore this functionality to my FOZ. Cheers.


Likewise, please give me the opportunity to opt-in if it's a goer. I'm quite interested to grab the non-2015 rack and sort the VSC issue along with it.

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Vehicle: MY09 XTP & MY16 BT50

Posts: 2461
Location: S.E. Melbourne
EvilRooter wrote:
dwee, when you go the Arduino fix method, can we work together? shipping, buying parts as Id like to restore this functionality to my FOZ. Cheers.

Yowie wrote:
Likewise, please give me the opportunity to opt-in if it's a goer. I'm quite interested to grab the non-2015 rack and sort the VSC issue along with it.

I'm actually looking into it and chatting with hired-goon about it. Mini GB haha. I'm asking him to make/program everything and post. So I just have to install it. If you guys are still interested, I will ask if he wants to do a few more and CC you guys in the PMs.

Yowie, from what I have seen so far, it's the 2.4 quick rack (JDM) & 2015 rack that are causing the VDC problems. AUDM STI (2.7) or WRXs rack do not.

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 Post subject: Re: dwee's '09 XTP SWP - JDM GVB STI Quick Rack
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Vehicle: MY12 XT Premium Auto White

Posts: 430
Location: Brisbane
Hmm guys I have installed the 2.4 quick rack (JDM).

When I get it back on the road I will see if I have any issues. Am I guaranteed to have issues?

I will follow this thread closely. I may have to jump in on the Mini GB?

Cheers Al


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