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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:41 pm 
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I Say: Rumo is about to get raped
Vehicle: White 04 JDM bitza

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Location: Perth
Looks more like a grow room haha

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:33 pm 
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I Say: There's no 'i' in Team, but there is in Winner!
Vehicle: MY10 XT

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Always nice work Bram :ok:
I saw in Central Java a few blokes had removed the engine from a bus in a very busy road (where it stopped) and rebuilding it in the gutter. About 37deg and 98% humidity. Im guessing the passengers had disseminated for the few days work.


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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:43 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
Playing around with the rod bearings today. My climate controlled shop is up to temp, so its go time. I bought a couple of sets of bearings so that i could play around with them and try and find the best fit.

Bearings are usually sized in standard size, undersize 10 and and undersize 20. Standard is for standard size crank journals. Undersize is when your crank shaft is worn and has been ground and polished under size. Now they sometimes also do what is called a standard +1 bearing. This is to suit a standard crank journal, but has about 0.001 additional clearance built in. Using these will help a builder set a slightly looser clearance, without having to polish a crank.

Most aftermarket bearing manufactures will also have what they call a race bearing and a regular. Bearings have many layers, the outer layer is usually what is called an imbedment layer. Its a softer compound that is designed to trap any debris that gets in there, the debris will literally imbed into the bearing, and push in, so that it doesnt score the crank as bad, and this will extend the life of the engine. But the problem with this imbedment layer is it is soft, so under high loads it can deform. One of the primary differences between race and regular is this embedment layer is larger and softer on regular bearings. So they will generally speaking last longer, and take more grit before failing. The race bearings are a bit harder, so will stand up better to the rigours of high load use, but wont last as long, and are more susceptable to grit ingress. If your unsure, you can pretty much go with what you want the engine to be used for. So if you are building a street engine that you want to last for long time, use standard. If you are building a high power engine for racing, which will be periodically pulled down for a freshen up, then use the race bearings. Its that easy.

I bought the race bearings in standard and standard +1, so i can measure and see what is best fit. ACL use an 'X' in the part number to designate the +1 sizing. When ordering bearings you must always double check your part numbers and ensure what you are supplied is correct. As this X hidden in the middle of the part number confuses alot of parts guys. I bought these bearings from CMA and it took them 3 goes to actually send out the correct bearings that I ordered and was invoiced for, because the average parts picker will be oblivious to this difference. CMA were very good to deal with and once I had explained what was going on, they handled it very well, expressing out the correct parts. I think i actually might have even ended up with a free set of bearings during the process.

Image2018-09-02_04-46-00 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

There are a couple of ways to size bearing clearances. The way the Subaru FSM call for is by using plasti-guage. The other is by using mics and bore guages to measure. I will be doing both techniques. But I am primarily interested in what i can see using the bore guage method, as i believe this to be a more accurate and repeatable method.

The procedure is similar to measuring piston to bore clearances. First you measure the crankshaft journals. Then you take that measurement, and use it to set and zero out your dial bore guage. Then using the bore gauge, you measure the difference between the crankshaft and the inside of the rod with bearings installed. This measurement is the bearing clearance.

Image2018-09-02_02-01-49 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Image2018-09-02_04-46-20 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

With the brand new Manley crank, brand new rods, and brand new standard size bearings, my clearances were quite tight. In the realm of about 0.0005 to 0.001. So i pulled out the standard bearings and swapped in the +1 set. The clearances measured are about 0.0015 to 0.002. Which is still a little bit tight. I would like maybe another half a thou for the tightest journal. The instructions supplied with the Manley rods call for between 0.002 and 0.003, which is looser clearances. And is where i would like to be.

So the crank might need a little polishing on the larger diameter journals to get me into spec. I will be doing some more research on this and gauging some opinions from other engine builders as this is my first build.

I did measure the rod journals as supplied on the Manley crank and they are within Manleys own tolerances. I need to fire up the PC and have a look at the OEM FSM and see what Subarus tolerances are for the rod journals.

Tightest clearance with the +1 bearings.
Image+1 ACL by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

This is the Manley crank tolerances. I havent double checked everything yet. Only the rod journals. As you can see in pen. This was done at about 17°c, straight after the crank came out of a petrol bath to clean it. (So a little cool from the evaporation of the petrol.) They have actually come up a couple of tenth-thousands as the day progressed. I am absolutely amazed at how much difference is measurable with temperature swings. It sounds like im being pedantic, but it really does muck you around. Even holding the micrometer too long and the heat from your hand will begin to heat the micrometer up. Things like that drive you crazy.
Image2018-09-02_05-28-50 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:25 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
I sent Herbert a msg last night asking about the rod bearing clearances for my motor. And his response was for "atleast 0.0025".

So im taking the crank around to get polished down to size hopefully tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:37 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
Took the crank around to use Neil E's lathe tonight. We polished the crank journals down just a whisker. And got them a little more uniform to each others size.

He also taught me a valuable lesson with measuring the bearing clearances via the bore gauge method today that i was un-aware of. That resulted in about 1/2 a thou of error during my previous measurements on the weekend.

When i measured my rod clearnces, what I did was :

Clean the crank.
Clean the rods.
Clean the bearings.
Instal the bearings into rods.
Torque rod bolts to spec.
*missing step here*
Measure the crank with micrometer.
Set the dial bore guage to zero from micrometer measurements.
Measure clearance.

Now, Neil told me that there was a very important step that i missed, which should have been to put the rod (with bearings) on the crankshaft, and torque it up. (With oil all over the journal) Then feel the rods/bearings/crank rotation and get a feel for how it moves etc. Then remove the rod from the crank. And re-assemble and torque the rod.

i said "how can that change my measured clearances???" And he said that "If you dont believe me, do it now and check for yourself."

So i double checked my measurement from the weekend before doing anything, and my measurement was exactly the same as i had measured. So, i then un-torqued the rod, split the big end, put it on the crank and re-torqued it up. Spun it around and had a feel. Then removed the rod from the crank. Cleaned it up, put it back together without the crank and torqued it up. And re-measured.

And sure enough, he was right, the clearnace increased by 0.0005" (half a thou). So this could have been a critical error. Thankfully he was onto it and able to show me before we did any polishing on the lathe.

The reason that the measurement changes is because the bearing has to be seated down into the rod big end bore. The rod does have a certain amount of crush on the bearing, when torqued, and this is what holds the bearing into the rod. I had assumed that simply installing the bearing into the rod and doing it up to torque would allow the crush on the bearing to seat it. But it still needs to be done up around the crank journal to really get that last little bit massaged out, and everything seated properly. And I was able to physically measure this phenomenon.

It was impressive watching Neil, he was able to "feel" the rod on the crank by hand and could pretty accurately tell me the clearance just by feel. And i confirmed after when i rechecked the clearance. He was pretty damn close. 8-)

We still did some polishing of the crank, but didnt have to remove as much material as i had originally thought. The procedure is to chuck the crank up in the lathe, grabbing onto the small flywheel locating boss/lip. (Well actually, we bolted a Toyota FA20 '86 auto crankshaft sensor mount onto the end of my crank, then chucked that up in the lathe, because there is a little bit more meat to grab onto. The snout of the crank was held in a live center of the tailstock. It has a taper already cut into it presumably for this purpose.

The lathe was geared down to the lowest speed, which i think was about 60-75 RPM. Then using some crank polishing emory cloth strips. (Lubed up with some inox/crc/wd40 etc.) You spin the lathe up and manually follow the con rod journal. Your arms go in and out with the stroke of the crank to keep a constant effort on the emory cloth. A little bit of side to side and diagonal to ensure you equally polish the journal. Take small amounts off, and re-measure often as you go, then work down to a finer paper for a smooth finish.

Image2018-09-06_10-27-15 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:50 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
Spent some time on the case halves today. Chased out all the critical bolt holes with a tap. This is to clean out any alluminium scale, dirt and debris from machining work, so that the threads are fresh and ready for bolts.

This is an important step often overlooked by engine builders. If there is dirt, scale and debris in the hole, the hole will have higher friction to the fastener. The fastener tension is critical to the main tunnel true-ness, and the only way you can measure it, is by measuring the rotational torque applied while tensioning the fastener. So any stiction between the bolt hole and the fastener could affect the accuracy of the fastener tension for a given applied torque value.

Image2018-09-09_02-26-38 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Image2018-09-09_12-49-13 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

I also have given the case halves a few preliminary cleans in a petrol bath. Washing down all the surfaces, bolt holes and oil and coolant passages. Cleaning the engine is also a very critical process. As any dirt and debris inside, could find its way into the oiling system and ruin your engine. Even the honing of the cylinders will coat the engine in very fine iron particles. You dont even know until you clean the engine and see the petrol change grey in colour as you wash. So multiple cleans are required, also being sure to use fresh petrol as you go. I have a simple plastic tub from Bummings, and some thick nitrile gloves. A few pipe cleaners, various bristle brushs and a supply of clean rags and clean shop air to blow things out. Its a stinky process, but a very critical one. After the petrol baths, a quick blow out and spray with brake clean and more blowing to get it nice and clean. Then be sure to put some oil back into the bores to prevent them from rusting.

This is also why i built myself a clean room to assemble in. It just reduces the chances of dirt ingress between cleaning and assembly. This isnt the final cleaning, just some in-between cleaning. The final cleaning will be alot more thorough.

Image2018-09-09_01-05-39 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

During the cleaning and thread chasing on the case halves. I got to really have a good look at the case. And i am quite dissapointed in the way its been treated. It literally looks like its been to Bagdad and back. There are numerous scars and dents all over it. Including on critcal surfaces like the case parting surface, and even the edges of the bearing tunnel and the parting faces. Aluminium is quite soft, and when you dent it in on one side, then that material has to go somewhere, so it will mushroom out and swell somewhere else. And that means it could affect the main bearings, or even the spacing between the cases onces torqued.

I think this probably happened while it was at High Speed Engineering (low speed engineering), as it was missing in action there for over 8 months!!!!! Which would be plenty of time for it to be kicked around the workshop. At the end of the day, i dont know how the case got so beat up, but I suspect it was careless handling while at HSE. It could have been from the Engine Shop, or from transport between the 2 shops. Or it could have even been me, while i transported it or diss assembled it even. Although i dont think so. As i would have remembered dropping it. Also, one of them has clearly been touched up with some wet n dry. So who ever done it, would have probably done that to try and cover up. I know that wasnt me.

These are just a few of the choice dents.
Image2018-09-09_02-10-58 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

This one here is right on the corner of the bearing surface and case parting surface. You can literally see how much it has bruised the metal into the actual bearing tunnel. Without attention, that will force the bearing to rub against the crank when assembled. Rember the clearances between bearings and crank are measured in the ten thousands of an inch. That bruise is visible to the naked eye. And the deformation into the bearing tunnel is also obvious to the eye, and can be felt by hand aswell.
Image2018-09-09_02-11-05 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

This is the one that has been touched up with wet n dry. If you look at the corner you can see how rounded over it is. These edges are usually very sharp corners. And it is significantly rounded, and the wet n dry marks show how much of the surrounding area would have swelled up around the impact. And has then been sanded away.
Image2018-09-09_02-10-44 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Image2018-09-09_02-10-51 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

These last 2 are of the same mark, just different angles. These are quite deep.
Image2018-09-09_02-10-35 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Image2018-09-09_02-11-10 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

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Last edited by Bram on Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:05 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
This is very frustrating, and very worrisome when you consider the money being thrown into this engine.

I have made the decision to have the main tunnel line honed. This is quite a specialist job on a Subaru, as the 2 piece block main bearing tunnel is quite different to a conventional engine. The process is to first cut the parting faces fresh and true. This brings the 2 cases closer together. You then assemble and torque the case, and then hone the tunnel. Which brings it back to its correct size and roundness. The honing takes off any high spots from the block distortion. And trues up the main bearing tunnel hole.

The damage to the engine isnt the only reason i have made this decision. There are a few other factors that i would have probably made me do so regardless of the damage.

For one. The ARP case bolts are known to apply so much tension to the case on assembly that you often cannot even turn the crankshaft . That is literally how much the extra tension and clamp force distorts the case/main tunnel.

There are 2 option when using ARP bolts. First is to only tighten them up to OEM specs. Not the ARP specs. This is still better than the un-graded bolts Subaru use as OEM. But wont give all the benifits of the ARP case bolts.

The other option is to line hone the cases, using the ARP bolts to hold the case together. Its kind of like torque plate honing a cylinder. The idea is to pre-distort the case, to its final posistion, and then honing it, so that way, it is honed true to the block in its distorted (assembled) shape.

ARP actually state not to do full torque in the instructions, unless you are line honing. Also, both Neil E and Neil H know not to do the bolts up fully because of this distortion. And so does Andre at the HPA, who specifically makes this point in his engine building coarse. So its a well known fact. So because of that, i was already leaning towards line honing and doing full torque, instead of winging it and only doing low torque.

Image2018-09-09_03-42-53 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

In my opinion, the ARP case bolt upgrade really is a good idea on any high output EJ. The internal forces inside the engine when its running (and making lots of power) are literally trying to tear the 2 halves apart. The same combustion pressure that is trying to lift the heads, is literally trying to push the crank away from the combustion. Which means pull the case halves apart. And the only thing that is holding them together is the 10 x 10mm bolts along the main tunnel. (And a couple of 8mm bolts around the edges of the case)

People upgrade headstuds because this same force becomes so large on high output engines that it trys to lift the head. And heads are held on by 12 X 11mm bolts as standard. Ive gone to 12 X 14mm studs. So it only makes sense to upgrade the smaller and fewer main bolts too. And do the line hone to get the most out of the upgrade

Image2018-09-09_03-41-55 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:52 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
When i got to tapping and cleaning the right side case, i also removed and tapped out the 2 crank case breather vents. This will help later on when it comes time to plumbing the dry-sump system. The barbs are just a little bigger than the tapping drill size required for 3/8 and 1/2 NPT. So i used those 2 sizes and tapped them out a bit deeper on the tap so i could get full thread engagement. This will be better too as it allows the NPT male end to screw down deeper and be lower to the case. Definitely an advantage with the tight space availability on top of the EJ motor.

Image2018-09-09_06-05-23 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Using the drill press to start the tap square in to the hole. Something that is very difficult when hand tapping.
Image2018-09-09_06-05-35 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr


Image2018-09-09_06-05-45 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Image2018-09-09_06-05-51 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

Its interesting to note that the Willall Billet blocks use a metric thread for thier screw in bards. Which is odd as it means no taper (handy for sealing threads.) And apparently also no O-ring or crash washer either. Which i found quite odd. Subaru use metric threads for the oil gallery and coolant core plugs. But they also use thread sealant and crush washers.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:29 am 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
I went and did some more polishing on the crank tonight. And actually learned how to do it myself, instead of making Neil do it for me. Sure does give the arms a good workout as your hanging off the crank as it goes round and round. A proper crank linisher would have made the process a little easier but we were limited to doing it by hand with strips. Thankfully i took many pauses to measure my progress. But that did end up taking up alot of time. In the end I got it down to exactly where i calculated it needed to be to give the desired clearance.
Crank journal measurements were all 2.0460/2.0461 once siad and done. Which is about 0.0005 under size of OEM tolerance, But i do want to run about 0.0005 more clearance than OEM tolerance aswell.

I was quite worried the eccentric motion of the crankshaft rotation would cause me to polish the journals unevenly, resulting in out of round. But out of round was less than 0.0001, which is with in Subaru spec aswell. I havent measured taper yet, but i suspect this may be a little out, with a bit tighter clearance towards the radius of the journals.

Hamish, whos shed Neils lathe is in, was kind enough to light the wood fire and pre-heat the entire shed for us, as he knew we were going to be using the micrometers. The shed is a large tin shed, but inside it is lined with freezer panels top to bottom. And the ceiling is fully insulated aswell. With the fire going and all the insulation, i think we would have been pretty close to ideal temperature for measuring.

Last time we didnt take very much off. Only gave them a lick and got them more equal and consistent sizing. Especially as Neil had shown me how the clearances can change after fitting the rods onto the crank. On the weekend i had some time to recheck the rod bearing clearances and see where they were after the 1st lot of polishing. I was consistently measuring 0.0018/0.0019 clearance. And that is coincidently exactly the large range of tolerance of Subarus OEM specs. Which call for a clearance of 0.0009 to 0.0019 if i recal right.

After hearing Neil Herberts advice to run atleast 0.0025 and Manleys recommedation to run between 0.002 and 0.003. I decided to target exactly 0.0025 clearance.

I will double check i am on target when i get some time on the weekend. But after all the measuring i have done leading up to now. I think it will be dead nuts on target.

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 Post subject: Re: Yeti Sled. Engine build.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:25 pm 
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I Say: Car mods are like OddBodz, you got to collect them all! -------------------------------------
Vehicle: MY05 STi swapped sled

Posts: 17786
Location: Spearwood Perth WA
Heres a pic with the case bolt hole plugs installed. They are sitting proud because they need to be individually cut down to size. The Engine Shop was reluctant to mill the deck surface with them in, incase the cutter pulled them out as it went over. So I will have to individually measure and turn them to size.

You can see that they have holes passing through them, so they arent a solid plug. Just a little extra re-inforcement for the thinnest part of the cylinder wall.

Image2018-09-12_07-33-06 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

This is a deck bridge with a dial indicator. It is the way i will measure the excess length that needs to be taken down. You first zero it out on the flat deck surface, then move it over to the plug and the reading will ve the difference in hieght between the 2.
Image2018-09-12_07-33-32 by bram biesiekierski, on Flickr

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