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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:48 am 
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Vehicle: MY13 SJ XT Premium

Posts: 382
Location: NSW Mid Nth Coast
Danoz wrote:
... I was very very happy with the result, a little bit of black smoke from the exhaust and the car pepped up nicely after the clean.

... If there was any colour left in the oil before the clean, it will be gone and the oil will be completely black (full of carbon).

Hi Danoz,
Two of your observations plus what I have noticed about the carbon build-up on the exhaust tips makes me think that this engine gets more carbon build-up than the earlier model XT engine. There is definitely a lot more carbon on the exhaust tips of this XT compared to my previous SH model XT (same exhaust tips), & when I have used the upper cylinder cleaner on our previous model Subarus they all emitted a light grey coloured smoke when running the engine immediately after the cleaner – not black. On earlier Subarus I haven’t experienced the oil changing colour when I used the cleaner after an oil change, the oil remained the same new golden brown colour.

I hope we aren’t going to get a problem with these engines with excessive carbon build-up. I wonder if this carbon build-up is because of the ECM software update to fix the severe pinging (running richer?) - did anyone notice this before the update?

BTW - The Tech who told me about how to use the SA459 on the SJ XT also meantioned that when a Subaru engine is pulled down it is obvious if upper cylinder cleaner has been used.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:27 am 
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I Say: Bright DRLs are like Kath and Kim's "Look at moy......"
Vehicle: MY13 XTP

Posts: 387
Location: OZ
subXT wrote:
Danoz wrote:
... I was very very happy with the result, a little bit of black smoke from the exhaust and the car pepped up nicely after the clean.

... If there was any colour left in the oil before the clean, it will be gone and the oil will be completely black (full of carbon).

Hi Danoz,
Two of your observations plus what I have noticed about the carbon build-up on the exhaust tips makes me think that this engine gets more carbon build-up than the earlier model XT engine. There is definitely a lot more carbon on the exhaust tips of this XT compared to my previous SH model XT (same exhaust tips), & when I have used the upper cylinder cleaner on our previous model Subarus they all emitted a light grey coloured smoke when running the engine immediately after the cleaner – not black. On earlier Subarus I haven’t experienced the oil changing colour when I used the cleaner after an oil change, the oil remained the same new golden brown colour.

I hope we aren’t going to get a problem with these engines with excessive carbon build-up. I wonder if this carbon build-up is because of the ECM software update to fix the severe pinging (running richer?) - did anyone notice this before the update?

BTW - The Tech who told me about how to use the SA459 on the SJ XT also meantioned that when a Subaru engine is pulled down it is obvious if upper cylinder cleaner has been used.

Hi Sub, Glad you brought this up. I've been wondering the same. I notice my fuel consumption is trending up after the software update. But I realize this could be due to fact that I'm having more "fun" than before the update. So, I cleaned up the exhaust tips two weeks ago, and will try to swipe a clean cloth over it in two weeks time to see how much carbon build up in 4 weeks time. Not washing the car during this time.

Anyone else notice this too (running richer) after software update?


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Vehicle: My14 XT Black

Posts: 116
Location: Sydney 2000
Anyone else starting to think about the degradation of our engines in 10 years time, they're losing grunt quicker than an F1 engine lol


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Vehicle: MY13 SJ XT Premium

Posts: 382
Location: NSW Mid Nth Coast
easy_peasy899 wrote:
... I notice my fuel consumption is trending up after the software update. But I realize this could be due to fact that I'm having more "fun" than before the update. ...
Easy, That’s what I put my extra fuel consumption down to – if the extra torque is there it’s hard not to use it. It needs a woman’s gentle touch to get good fuel economy with the very responsive throttle now – I certainly can’t. But having said that, on the open road I can get better fuel economy than our previous SH XT but around town I get about the same. The trade-off of poorer fuel economy for the extra torque doesn’t really worry me, but the carbon does.

So do you think the extra sooty exhaust tips (compared to the previous model stock SH XTs) only happened after the upgrade or was that the situation even prior to the upgrade? I didn’t take much notice pre upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:40 pm 
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I Say: Bright DRLs are like Kath and Kim's "Look at moy......"
Vehicle: MY13 XTP

Posts: 387
Location: OZ
Yes. It's hard to resist the extra torque now.

Like you sub, I didn't pay attention to the exhaust tips before the software update until recently when i dig into why mine is wobbling every now and then.

If we recall some XTs pre software update they had puff of black smoke with the ping. And some only ping with no black smoke.

I think only the tuner who done the revised software can answer this accurately. I hope he can shed some light soon - if we are actually running richer now or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Vehicle: MY13 SJ XT Premium

Posts: 382
Location: NSW Mid Nth Coast
subXT wrote:
So do you think the extra sooty exhaust tips (compared to the previous model stock SH XTs) only happened after the upgrade or was that the situation even prior to the upgrade? I didn’t take much notice pre upgrade.

I must have had a brain fade when I wrote that. :roll: I remember a month or two after buying our XT (before the ECM upgrade) looking at the exhaust pipes & thinking “that’s running lean” – the inside of the exhaust pipes were a light grey colour like we used to see on older cars using leaded petrol. Running on unleaded premium fuel the pipes should always be black.
But having said that, when the Tech replaced my spark plugs as part of the upgrade I noticed the old plugs were a nice brown colour indicating the mixture was pretty good.

Before the upgrade I remember being told the SJ XT engines were running lean under certain conditions which was (partly?) the reason for the severe pinging.

Something else I’ve noticed; if I wipe the back of our XT with a damp cloth I get black on the cloth – I hadn’t experienced this with our previous SH XT, but that may be due to differences in aerodynamics. I’m pretty certain it isn’t burnt oil because the engine doesn’t use any oil whatsoever. My guess is its soot from running too rich under certain conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:13 pm 
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I Say: Bright DRLs are like Kath and Kim's "Look at moy......"
Vehicle: MY13 XTP

Posts: 387
Location: OZ
I wonder if el cheapo obd2 and torque pro can help.... set real time information screen to show open/close loop status, air fuel ratio commanded, and air fuel ratio measured.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:28 pm 
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I Say: Bright DRLs are like Kath and Kim's "Look at moy......"
Vehicle: MY13 XTP

Posts: 387
Location: OZ
So.

Last Thursday, I filled up with Shell 95 (3 bar of V Power left on the meter) and added in Liqui-Moly MOS2 oil additive. There was some improvement after 3 days, but the car is still randomly shaking lightly at idle.

Filled up again with Shell 95 yesterday (1 bar left of last week mixture of Shell 95 + V Power) and added in Liqui Moly Fuel System Cleaner/Conditioner. Straight away I noticed much smoother start and drive. Had to stop after about 10 km or so, during this idling I noticed the engine shudder a bit more than before (around 2 seconds) followed by a tiny 'pop' from the back (can't tell if backfire or afterfire). Checked the exhaust once parked at garage, they are darker already! Fresh coat of carbon when I roughly swipe my finger on it (after it has cool down).

Seems like Subaru Carbon Maintenance is extremely critical in XTs - both SA459 and Subaru Fuel Additive. I'm yet to confirm my suspicion that the dealer has skipped both on my service 2 months ago.

Is 98 RON really not suitable for our XTs?
Is there any good Subaru service that allows you to be in the workshop while the car is getting serviced?

Thanks guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:16 pm 
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Vehicle: MY10 XTP & MY06 RColt

Posts: 565
Location: Newcastle, NSW
easy_peasy899 wrote:
I wonder if el cheapo obd2 and torque pro can help.... set real time information screen to show open/close loop status, air fuel ratio commanded, and air fuel ratio measured.

Something like that would give you everything bar air/fuel. Keeping in mind std sensor is only a narowband so it will only report rich/lean and nothing in between if it reports anything at all.
I have a scangauge II in my daily and it doesn't report Afr, or boost. Does open/closed loop though.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner SA459 for SJ
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Vehicle: MY13 SJ XT - White

Posts: 280
Location: Sydney NW
OBDLink MX bluetooth/wireless will log the commanded equivalence ratio. Just times 14.64 by the equivalence ratio to get the commanded A/F ratio.

I've got some logs here:

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin ... ndex7.html


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